Choose to Win - Interview w/Tom Ziglar
All right, well, welcome to the Improver Network Podcast Mr Tom Ziegler.
I'm your host, Justin Winstead, and we've got our listeners tuning in and we're so excited to have you with us today.
Thanks for joining us.
Thanks for having me Justin.
I'm excited to be here.
Yeah, we are super excited to have you.
There's a lot of people that know that you're recording this week and they say, man, we can't wait for the episode to be published.
And so we're really anxious to get this and get it, uh, fine tuned and sent out because I know.
That this next little bit of time that we spend together is going to be really helpful and encouraging to someone and so excited about you being able to share with us today.
I know you've been an inspiration to me and the whole Ziegler incorporated.
Just company and framework has been impactful and so I'm glad that we're sharing that.
Just with more people.
Awesome awesome. Well I'm excited.
Yeah, well, what I want to do is I'm gonna start out this section of the podcast.
Just get getting to know you a little bit.
I mean, I know you some, but there's some people tuning in that may know of you, but let's just kind of connect a little bit and learn a little bit more about who Tom Ziegler is now.
Now a lot of people are probably familiar with Zig Ziglar, and they're like wait Ziglar, I recognize that name and so you're the son of Tom Ziglar.
I mean sorry Zig Ziglar and I just can't imagine what it would have been like growing up with Zig Ziglar as your father.
And so I'm so curious like.
About one of your favorite childhood memories. Growing up with Zig's dad.
Well, I tell you what you know.
I get that question a lot.
You know what was that like and I can tell you that he was better off stage than he was on stage so.
Wow, that's saying something.
So most people remember and recognize him from his speeches and maybe listening to his audio programs.
Reading his books, but I remember him and Mom just as.
People you just want to be around just sincerity they cared.
Dad was very intentional about everything that he did.
He was kind of an introvert off the stage and he loved his family and so he's you know, he was just thrilled whenever the family was around.
Kind of my favorite memories.
They all kind of go back to one place with Dad and that was on the golf course.
We he loved golf.
There was nobody more passionate about playing golf and dad was and we played a lot of golf together and it.
Was always fun and.
The only time he was that.
Was he good?
Was he good?
It was good, I mean.
Yeah, he was good though he was a good golfer.
Well, when we first started playing, I would say he shot in the high 80s, low 90s and then you know we played until he was a hit late 70s and so that that score went down just a little bit over.
Or I should say the score went up because it's golf, right?
But yeah, we we just had so much time, so much fun playing golf.
And the only time he was happier with a good shot that he hit was when I hit a good shot.
So it says a lot, right?
You know you can tell a parent when they get more excitement out of their kids doing well, so that was just a just a great memory and and we we had golf trips that we went on together.
And you know, we we just had some.
We played in tournaments together so that time just comes back.
That is, that's incredible.
I love how affectionately you speak of them.
Even you know when we get older, many times we think highly of our parents.
We realize how much wiser they were than we originally thought, but it sounds like even as a child you had that admiration and respect.
Did they go through your teen years as well?
'cause usually teenage years?
Is where there's especially rub with mom and dad.
You know, I.
I was twelve when I really started playing golf and then the older I got, the more excited I got about it.
So we kind of had this bond around golf that you know that interfered with the normal teen things of you know teenagers wanting to find their own way and they know best and all that stuff.
I probably did have some of that in me, like most people do.
But it never grew to the extent that it got in.
The way of.
Our golf, so that's incredible, and I probably had a lot to do with just his positivity, right?
You know, positive energy.
Breeds positive energy and it's contagious, so that's fantastic.
Well I want to you to share with us a funny story.
Maybe it was really funny at the time, or maybe it wasn't so funny then, but now you look back and laugh on it.
But what's one of those family stories that you look back on and you're like, man, that was that that was funny.
Well, Dad was a prankster and he liked to do little pranks and.
So one of the things that he would do is we would go eat at Luby's Cafeteria.
I was raised and weaned at Luby's, so for those of you who don't know what a Luby's cafeteria is.
It's a famous kind of southern place.
It was all over.
Dallas had a bunch of locations and you go down the cafeteria line.
You get your food.
And you sit down and the they, you know they they bring you tea and all that good stuff.
And so a lot of times I would be with a friend and the friend would come with us to go to Luby's Cafeteria.
And Dad would be very deliberate in making sure they got whatever they wanted.
And when you're a teenager or 12 or 13 in that age, what you usually wanted included dessert.
And so we would all sit down at the table and the dad would do something distracting.
And then he would hide the guests dessert, whatever it was.
And I had so many friends they would search everywhere for 'cause they.
Knew they'd gotten.
It it's right.
Oh man, that's, uh, that's fine there.
And so those pranks just continued on, and it was just dads, little little humor that he did and and kind of I don't do the same things.
But I do make faces and all of our family pictures so.
All right man, that is tons of fun there.
Well kind of on the opposite end of the spectrum when you think about just your personal life and it doesn't have to be from when you as a child.
This could be just any time, but when you think about a time when you just failed or really struggled or man, it just was a tough time.
Who comes to mind and what did you learn from that?
Yeah, well, I talk about this in the book.
Choose to win I I became the the President and CEO of the company when I was 30.
So Dad was out speaking and traveling and I was basically doing the day-to-day operations.
You know, making sure everything was running and.
When I was 33 I had this brilliant idea of how we could grow our business and it and it really meant starting a separate business on. You know, one that ran parallel.
And it was going to go after a new market, a market that we had a ton of experience with.
A huge following in that arena.
And we were going to sell to that and create a direct sales force at the same time.
And we did all the research.
Dad was behind it, but it was really my idea.
I was spearheading that.
And we launched that and it had a great start.
And then it just fizzled.
And a year later we had to.
Shut it down.
And we ended up two and a half $1,000,000 in debt because of that.
So so so I went to bed every night thinking that dad had spent his whole life building his reputation and it had taken me less than a year to crater it.
And the whole time Dad never lost his.
Uh, you know positive outlook.
He always told me, hey, this is going to be OK.
Don't worry about it.
And meanwhile I'm carrying all this worry.
All this baggage I'm.
I don't know if you ever had a Nokia flip phone.
But it was.
They have a very distinctive ring to him.
And so this is like how long ago was this?
Like 50 this.
Was two 2001 2002 1001 is when this happened so every day.
For like a year I would get to the office at 7:30, close my door and then the cell phone would start ringing.
And it was people wanting to know when we were going to pay him.
Those are phone calls are not fun to get, are they?
No, and when they're relentless.
And and from Dad I keep hearing hey this is going to be OK.
This is going to work out.
It did, but I remember leaving work one day, probably three or four months into this.
And one of my best friends.
His name is Bruce Bar where he reached out.
He just called me so on the way home my phone rings again.
I'm like hello and it's Bruce and he says.
So how's it going?
And I said not so good.
It's been another hard day.
Well tell me about it.
So I told him about it and he said.
Did you take every phone call?
And I said yes.
He said, did you tell him the truth on every call?
What you could do, and what you couldn't do, and I said yes.
And he said, well then you need to leave that behind, because do you think God is happy with that?
And I said, yeah, I think he probably is, since I did everything I could, he said, yeah, you need to leave that behind.
Go home and enjoy your family.
And that was kind of a turning point, uhm?
Process because you know it wasn't.
An integrity issue or or morality issue, or anything that got us into that situation.
It was just a bad business decision.
Yeah, and we had a lot of supporters who thought it would be a home run, but it was.
And so we ended up.
We worked through all that God worked.
God does what God does and and we were able to pay off that debt and.
You know Dad was right, but it just made me realize that a.
Lot of times.
We get into situations that we don't understand that we have very little control over and really all we can do is all we can do.
And as long as we're doing that.
With integrity telling the truth, then you know the creators happy so.
Man, that is a fantastic lesson.
I know a lot of the people who are listeners of our podcast.
They identify as an improver and part of the idea of an improver is that we're always wanting to make things better.
We're always wanting to improve.
We want to see things maximize their potential.
So we have a very forward thinking.
We want things to be better, right and?
That's just not the way life always is.
Sometimes you aim to make something better and then in that particular chapter.
It actually makes it worse, and that can be a struggle for a lot of us and then just you sharing that story I think is very encouraging just to remember that like hey, in your in your ambitions and in your mission to try to make the.
World a better place.
We're going to stumble, and we're going to fail.
And I know a few years ago it seemed like everything I was touching was turned into gold and I was like, man, I'm just like winning at this whole life thing like I'm just like doing.
And then it hit me, though at some point after that season that I looked back and I, I realized that the reason everything I was doing I was winning at is because I wasn't taking any real risk.
I wasn't really trying anything meaningful at that point, and so I was doing safe stuff, so I was winning at all the safe stuff, but at the point when I said you.
Know what I'm going to try to do?
Some things that are tough but that are going to be meaningful and purposeful.
I had some victories and those are very sweet but also ended up having some failures too.
And so some of you out there, you're playing it too safe, and so you're not really having these failures.
Like Tom was talking.
Well, but then some of you you're failing and you're beating yourself up and I love your story.
'cause it's an encouragement to.
Yeah, focus on what you can control and the inputs and let the outputs land where they may.
So yeah, one of my takeaways from that season was, you know whether it's a win or progress or improving.
I kind of come all back to it's about growth.
Right, and so we might be going through a dry season, but our roots, our roots are going deep 'cause they have to right?
They have to.
Which is going to give us.
That additional support in the foundation when we grow again and then the wind comes right 'cause we got to be rooted.
And it's hard to see that in the middle of that storm.
And I think Dad was just looking at me from his, you know, 60 plus years of experience at that point, saying yeah, he's.
This is just a money.
Storm, don't worry about it.
It's gonna be alright man.
Love it, that is fantastic.
It I still haven't.
I still haven't gotten to that point of no worry like he was.
Yeah, well, so it sounds like your friend spoke just some life into your world and just that was a paradigm shift for you and so that was very along the same lines, though if you can think back to a compliment that you've received or some affirmation, and it sounds like your dad was very affirming, but maybe even from someone else, what's a great compliment?
That you've received.
There's a couple that you know.
I was thinking about this.
There's a couple that kind of stand out.
One of them I was just starting my speaking career.
And I went to speak, and there was about 500 people there. It it was. It was a great room and every gremlin known to man happened.
The short of it is is I had a PowerPoint and normally I like to plug in my computer and they said no.
Why don't you put it on this disk and or on the USB and then we'll put it on ours 'cause it was their thing and so they did and I went to check it.
And the first five slides were perfect.
Right and then I I get into my talk and about the 10th slide in they were the same slides but they were out of order.
I have no idea what happened, they got scrapped.
Table and so it was just a, you know, a 30 or 40 minute keynote.
And so the thing you gotta remember is when you're doing that, the room has no idea, right?
Unless you let them know that something is going on.
And so I just proceeded on and I told my story and the story I told was.
That in my journey when I was in college, I wanted to be a professional professional golfer like on the PGA Tour.
And that didn't work out, and I told that story and when I was done I come off and I'm like well.
You know that didn't go the way I wanted it to, but I think it went OK based on what was going on in my head.
With all these slides popping in from these different directions.
And so I was signing some books and I'm talking to this guy.
And I said.
What do you think?
And he said.
The world has enough professional golfers.
I'm glad you're doing what you're doing, it's.
So he had no idea of the story that was going on in my head, right?
And so it's funny how a sincere compliment at.
At the right time makes a lot of difference, another one.
Was I got done speaking and my daughter was.
Gosh, I think she was like 18 or 19 so this is seven or eight years ago. She's 27 now. Whatever that is, I heard her tell my wife.
Hey, he's getting pretty good, isn't he?
And she she doesn't know, she said dads getting dads pretty good, isn't he?
So when you can keep your teenage daughters attention, that was a good.
That was a good compliment.
Oh man, that is fantastic and wonderful.
I appreciate that, you know.
I'm picking up Justin the fuel stories that you're telling me now, and I don't want to project this on you.
But again, speaking to our improvers that that listen in one of the things we talk about often is the impostor syndrome.
And just this, these these voices that kind of go and start play in our head and and I know you're really big on making sure you're getting the right content.
In, and you're speaking the right things in do is that something that you feel like it is just a universal thing that people and I don't know.
I don't want to say you struggle with this like I have.
I know a lot of our improve our network.
We just talked about that impostor syndrome is a real thing and we get.
To tell telling ourselves stuff that is like you're not capable, you're not worthy.
You're not good enough.
It sounds like that you've had at least some of that.
Uhm, over your lifetime, right?
Oh yeah, uh, I think everybody does, you know, as you climb the ladder if you get more successful then all of a sudden you breakthrough to a new level or you get, uh, a different kind of account or or all of a sudden your business.
You know it.
It turns profitable and then it gets more profitable and you're like you know where's the where's the Pete person pulling the rug out from under me, right?
And so that that that happens to all of us when I when I first started speaking.
People wanted me to speak.
I didn't want to speak.
You know, I had the greatest speakers in the world on our team and my job was to prepare a stage for them to go and speak.
And but they said, no, you got something to say.
So the first few times I went out, I got great feedback.
But man, my stomach was just turning.
Like you know I didn't lie.
I mean, it was just.
Gut wrenching right?
And so I had to.
Put myself in the corner, right?
You've ever set.
Yourself in the corner.
And I said what's going on and and So what I told myself.
Was that everybody wanted me to speak like my dad.
Well, there's only one zig Ziglar.
Nobody can speak like him.
And I started thinking, well, where did I hear that from?
Nobody told me that.
But my dad certainly didn't tell me that.
And so then I realized that I needed to change myself talk, which was, hey, you've got to be the person God created.
You to be right.
You've got to take your gifts and talents.
You've got to elevate your nerd.
'cause I'm a big time nerd.
On the inside.
You know what I mean and go with your gifts.
And then from a preparation, and from a principle and values perspective.
Those are things you can control, right?
Those are like we all have control over how much we prepare to some extent right?
I mean, there's there's exceptions to that, but.
I said let let that you know, live up to you know, live the same principles and values and prepare like your dad.
But be yourself, that was a very freeing.
Position that's when the majority of that impostor situation went away.
And then I've spoken on big stages with, you know, well known speakers who command a lot of money and have a huge following, and it's really easy to say.
Am I supposed to be up here?
But at the same time, it's instantly met with 'cause now I've got the self talk.
No, there, they can't be you, you you you reach a certain individual, a certain group in a certain way with a certain message.
And nobody can deliver it like you can. So your only responsibility is this is what I learned from Dad. Your responsibility is to speak God's truth and love.
That's it, you prepare and you speak God's truth and.
Love and you know.
That's where it ends, and so that's really helped me.
One of the things you just reminded me of is really that Paul speaks of this, and sometimes people confuse his words on the be all things to all people, and so we assume that we've got to be.
We got to be everything and so we've got to be able to reach every single crowd.
But that message was not to an individual, it was to a group of people who said.
Hey, as the believers you guys need to try to be all things to all people, but in other parts he says some of you have these giftedness.
Some of you have these talents and we need to work together.
Everybody doing what they were gifted and blessed with the ability to do.
And we're all doing our job.
It fits together where we're being all things to all people, and we're really making things happen.
But I was confused about that for a while and I thought, well, if I've got to be everything I've got to be able to reach this group of people.
And I got to be able to do this kind of thing and I love what you're saying. Which is, you know, God's giving you a purpose to reach a certain group of people.
He's blessed you with certain gifts and you just got to use those you can't.
You can't be everybody else.
Be your own self so.
I love I love that.
So this is a little bit of myth busting going on here and you had to do some myth busting in your own mind on this and the way you're thinking about it.
What about myth busting for what maybe how people?
How they view what you do, are Ziegler incorporated?
What are some things that you find that there's a little bit of a misconception or misunderstanding?
Or just a false belief that people have about you guys or.
You yeah, and I'll kind of.
I'll share with you just a couple of thoughts on that in our industry, which is personal development success.
That genre you know?
Norman Vincent Peale, Les Brown, Paul Harvey, Tony Robbins.
There's a there's a bunch of people in that industry.
They have all come along and there's a really common quote, and that quote says this.
If your mind can conceive it, and you can believe it, then you can achieve it.
And Dad did not believe that, and I don't either.
And the reason is is he gives the example.
It's the famous Shaquille O'Neal example.
Shaquille O'Neal could could conceive that he was going to be a Kentucky Derby winning jockey right that could that could enter his mind like, yeah, I could do that and then he could believe it with all of his heart.
But there's no.
Way that if Shaquille O'Neal gets on the fastest horse that's ever run the Kentucky Derby.
That he's gonna win that race, right? Just just like me at 57.
I'm not going to go tryout for the Dallas Mavericks and make the team.
My you know my speed my 2 inch.
Vertical leap all.
Of these things by my 59 ish.
Hi, these are all preventative things that no matter how much I can conceive it and believe it, I'll achieve it.
And So what happens is when you.
When you follow that path and it doesn't happen.
The end of that road is despair, right?
Wait a second, that's not a.
That's not a realistic position to be in.
Well then the the 2nd.
Kind of side of that is, well, what do we then believe?
This is what we believe and that is.
This is that until you can conceive it, not if you conceive it, but until you can see that and believe it.
Then you have no chance of achieving it.
OK, So what does that mean? It means that you've got to see the possibility and then you look at your knowns and God's unknowns, right? You look at the possibility. Then you work towards making that happen.
And so that gives you the freedom to go out and develop something that God's given you, and to do it to the best of your extent.
Does it guarantee your success?
Well, no, it doesn't guarantee your success, but unless you believe that way, the impossible is not going to be made possible.
So here's kind of the tie down story on that dad's mentor was Fred Smith. Fred was the wisest man that I ever met.
And Fred, he passed away about 13 years ago.
Now he was in his 90s.
The last years of his life were very difficult.
He was on kidney dialysis.
His health was very poor.
And he spent the better part of that last year flat on his back.
And his daughter Brenda took care of him in and for like six months of that.
She'd literally had to turn him over to take care of him.
His mind was completely there, but his body was just gone.
And so he passed away, and we go to his memorial service.
Well, they played a video that Fred made a couple of months before he passed away.
It's like it's like he knew the time was.
Near and he starts off with. Well, I guess I've got everybody's attention. I mean, just classic humor.
And then he says.
Many people have asked me because he was the mentor to the CEOs of the Fortune 500 he worked with so many nonprofit charities leaders and he was on their boards.
He's kind of the guy behind the scenes you never heard of, right?
He just knew all these people.
And every week for years he did this thing called breakfast with Fred and people would come from all over and have breakfast with him.
Well, at the end of his life they would end up in his house and he would sit in his bed and he would tell a story or or give him some wisdom and then they would ask questions.
So on this video he says.
Many people have asked what's the biggest lesson in life that I've learned?
And he said, I only learned it in the last year.
He said here's what I learned.
He said I would, I.
Would wake up in the morning.
And God will have laid something on.
My heart to do.
And he said here I am flat on my back.
I can barely open my eyes.
I can't even turn over and I would negotiate with God as to why I wouldn't be able to do that.
Why I didn't have the strength to do it.
And then he said, when you negotiate with God, you always lose.
And he said, after a while negotiation he would call Brenda in and then he would dictate to her the message God had given him.
That's that, was his purpose in life at that time was to was to to dictate messages of wisdom that could.
Help other people.
And he said, this is when I learned the message.
The biggest the the biggest thing I learned in my life and that is this.
When God lays something on your heart to do, your only responsibility is to just start.
And the reason is this.
That doesn't give you the strength to overcome.
He gives you the strength while you're overcoming.
And so I think a lot of times you know we have these big dreams.
These big visions, and that perfectionistic.
I'm going to remove all the risk I'm going to learn everything I can.
I'm not going to start until the sun and Moon aligns and all the days are perfect and I've got a 20 year security fund.
Over here, right that that never happens.
If it's truly a calling and this is a quote that I have your your calling is not meant to fit who you are.
But who God created you to become?
And so I think we've got to take that that idea that.
Until we can until we can conceive it and believe it.
And then we go after it.
There's no chance of achieving it, right?
So we gotta go after it.
And if it's truly a calling.
If God is going to get the credit God deserves, he's going to give you what you need in the middle of the journey, not before you start.
Because I've looked in the mirror, I know me and I'm going to take credit for it.
If I could do it on my own.
And if I get to take credit for it, then it's not big enough.
Yes man, that is a great word.
Well, thank you for sharing that time.
Well I see what I wanted to do right now.
Let's pause for a quick break, and then after we get back from the break, we're going to talk about some challenges that you're facing.
Maybe right now in your company or just in the industry and some of the changes going on.
And also we wouldn't want to hear.
Some maybe productivity hacks and tips.
A lot of our people want to be very efficient, and we'll talk books and just a lot more.
So excited to connect a little bit more after this break.
But let's pause for a quick minute.
Alright, welcome back to our listeners.
Still here with Tom Ziegler.
And then we're just having a great time here in all kinds of cool stories and getting good advice.
I know anytime we do an event with our improver network, we have three main objectives.
We always want people to be educated, we want.
To enlighten them with some kind of information that helps them think differently, we want to encourage their hearts and just lift their spirits, and then we want to equip them with something that they can.
Take and do and implement to make a life business whatever better, and so I'm already gathering those three things from what we've done so far on the podcast being enlightened, encouraged and equipped.
So as we kind of continue that theme, we'd love to hear we're in the personal growth, success, improvement, kind of industry.
Along with you and I kind of observing a few things, but I'm curious from your perspective.
What are the biggest challenges that maybe you're facing right now, specifically within Seglar?
Or maybe just in the broader industry as a whole?
Yeah, I think there's a couple of challenges in the industry or when you just boil it down to.
If you're called on to coach or mentor or advise someone.
Some of the cultural things that are going on the the first one is noise and.
There's so much noise out there, it's like 24/7 whether it's social media, the news, all the things you know, our texts from, the moment we wake up until the moment we go to bed or text is is just. It's lit up or at work. When does it start? When does it end?
You know with the pandemic and so many more people working, either full time, remote or hybrid.
Uh, there's different people have really changed.
In general, their overall perspective of life.
It used and this is, uh, this to me, this is fantastic.
The majority of Americans they used to put their work in the center of their life and then they let the rest of life revolve around that.
And now with all the things that have happened and more and more people working flexible schedules.
They've lost loved ones and friends.
Uh, collectively we've.
We've had people go through this, so they want their life to matter, right?
They they, they wake up and they go.
Hey, is this what I was built to do?
Right am I making a difference and and and so because there wasn't necessarily intentionality on the path they went on, so they're stepping back.
So what are they prioritizing now?
They're they're prioritizing their quality of life.
They're prioritizing the time they spend with their family.
A lot of people are prioritizing their health and and the things that that make life rich.
And so that there's this conflict between I want my life to matter.
And then there's all this noise that comes in.
And then we're seeing a real polarization.
Uh, culturally between the left and the right.
And then there's a quote that I'm really searching.
As to, you know, what do we do?
How do we be a light in the darkness?
How do we?
Because I believe more people are hungry for the truth now than ever because they know that things are right, but they don't know what is right because the noise is not sending them.
I mean it's just a hard thing.
And so I came up with a a quote the other day.
And and here's the quote and it says this that that humility.
Is the taproot of wisdom?
And so when we think of leadership.
Has anybody ever said you know?
What I want I.
Want to a?
Charismatic, super intelligent, great communicating, brave and courageous fool.
To be my leader, nobody ever said that.
But we never hear about wisdom, right?
It's like, you know, in all the discussions for the next governor, the next President, the next CEO.
It's not like they get on a panel and somebody asks them, well, how do we know you're wise?
I mean, it's like you never even hear the wisdom work.
But don't we need wise leaders right now?
And so I started thinking.
Well where does wisdom come from?
Humility is the taproot of wisdom.
So in a plant.
Or a tree.
The taproot that's the root that seeks the water, right?
It's the route that goes from the nutrition.
It's really seeking the truth right in a spiritual context.
It's the taproot is speaking the truth so humility.
He is never assuming that I know all the answers that I've, that that my position is always right, and you're always wrong.
Humility understands that when you talk to somebody you know less than 2% of who they.
Are I mean we know such a fraction of their journey and what they've been through?
And so he mulat humility, allows us to be kind to be respectful to, to really care about somebody else, to be selfless in our response to them, to willingly hear what they have to say in his leader.
You know when we get removed from the people on our team are people on our team.
They're the ones who know the.
Answers and if we have the opposite of humility, if we're arrogant or prideful or self-righteous, that means that they know it's a waste of their time to come tell you what they know.
And so here's the kind of that.
Sequence there we want wise leaders.
But it's hard to tell if someone wise, right?
Because how do you get wisdom?
Well, it takes experience.
Well, how do you get experience? Well you you start a business and then it goes. You have to close it down two and a half million years later two and a half $1,000,000 later.
Yeah right, yeah, right yes, it's.
A it's a heavy price to pay to to get some wisdom right, and so when we see somebody who's wise, sometimes it's hard to say.
Are they really wise?
Because they've all got those decisions they wish they could do over.
So then the next question is this.
Are they humble?
And if they're humble.
Then leak look further right bigot.
If they're not humble.
Right, because right now, in a very polarized divisive.
Situation that we're in.
We need humble leaders.
Right, we need humble leaders who can hear what's going on.
Otherwise you just stick to your position and you get more and more polarized and that doesn't.
That doesn't do any good.
Man, that's that's really good.
You know, it seems like it's kind of hard to transition to a quick productivity hack, or you know, a shortcut when we're talking about something like being wise and going deep and all that.
But you know, we have to balance that, right?
We have to balance like being humble and wise.
And then you know, really thinking deeply about those things but also looking for what makes us more efficient, not just.
More effective, and so I think humility and wisdom are very effective.
What are some efficiency tips that are tricks or some things that you're like?
Man, I discovered this and this just really helped me to get more done in less time or help me to balance all the spinning plates.
What's what's a tool?
Tip or hack that you have?
That might be beneficial to our listeners.
Yeah, I talk about it and I call it the perfect start.
And and really, it's just how we start our day.
But I'm only going to talk about one piece.
Of how we start our day.
I was speaking.
And we had a Q&A in the in the and there's a guy in the Q&A and he raised his hand and he says, Tom.
I know there was a lot of things that made Zig Ziglar Zig Ziglar.
But what's the one thing?
That he did that, you believe, made him who we know him as right.
And so I said, you're right, there were a lot of things, but here's the one thing.
So for 40 years.
He would start his day, every day 2-3 hours a day.
Reading, listening to the top books on on performance and family and business.
Studying hours and hours in God's word, but he was listening with the motive and his motive.
Was to learn something new.
And then he would internalize it and simplify it so that he could share it with someone else for their benefit.
So his motive was to learn something new, to share with someone else for their benefit.
And so here's the hack.
What if every day?
At the start of the day.
You just took five or 10 minutes.
To learn something new.
And your goal was to internalize and simplify it.
And then you shared it with somebody else that day for their benefit.
Nice if you did that every day.
How much different of a person would you be at the end of the year?
And let me say it again, this is only going to take 5 or 10 minutes.
Well, wouldn't that require humility?
And lead to wisdom, because yes, that understanding that I don't know everything.
In a pure motive of helping someone else, you get transformed in the process.
So it's not enough just to read a book or do a devotional or listen to something motivational for you know while you're working out or 10 or 20 minutes.
I mean, that's.
That's better than doing nothing.
But what if you just?
Tweak that just a little bit and you took the same time.
And you said.
Man, I'm gonna I'm gonna internalize that and then I'm going to text my best friend I'm going to share it in our company meeting.
I'm going to leave a voicemail to my high school mentor, right?
I'm gonna write.
I'm just gonna I'm going to share it with somebody else for their benefit.
What happens to you at the end of the year?
It's a it's just such.
So it's it's like what do they say?
If it's if it's it's.
If it's easy to do, it's easy not to do, yeah.
That's true we need.
But that's a ninja that's ninja level.
When you when you start taking five minutes and you start applying it that way.
Well, you're making me think of a quote in your book.
Choose to win that says the fastest way to success is to replace a bad habit with a good habit.
And if you combine that with this quote productivity hack here that you're.
You're mentioning that's one of the best habits that you could replace.
Let's say if you're starting out your day and within your first 60 to 90 minutes.
If you are getting on social media, if you're reading the news, if you're doing these things, that's probably a bad habit that if you would replace that with the good habit of what you're talking about.
You know, getting in God's word, reading books, filling your mind with something that's going to help you to grow in your personal or professional life.
He's replacing that bad habit with that.
Good habit is going to get you to success faster, and so that's that's really good.
And I think some people will go.
Yeah, that's that's obvious.
But again, to your point, it's so obvious or so easy, like why aren't we doing it?
But that's that's what it takes to do so that's fantastic there along the same lines as.
Tips want to think about tools like is there a certain tool that you feel like is indispensable for you and what you do and that you would recommend to people like hey, if you don't have this, then you're probably maybe working hard, but not as smart as you should.
What's a tool that you really like?
I love our performance planner and it's it's different.
It's not a it's not a journal, but people use it to journal.
It's not a calendar, but it has a calendar.
It's not an appointment book, but you can keep your appointments in it.
Really, what it is is it's a goal setting.
An achievement system.
If I were going to rename the performance planner, I'd probably rename it to how to get?
What you want?
Yeah, OK, very cool, it's.
Right and yeah.
And So what it is.
It's a it's a planner.
It's got one week spread over 2 pages.
You write your goals down at the top.
Your top four goals and every day you make progress towards those goals.
Taking those baby steps.
And and it's like 5 to 10 minutes a day.
Again, this is this is not a time consuming overwhelming.
Thing and and what's interesting, Justin, is that I read, or one of my friends told me of a survey.
Or is the study?
Only about 20%.
Of people really get inspired by goals?
80% are motivated by solving problems.
And so in our system, we call it the gold Digger goal.
Seven step goal setting system.
You can actually replace the title seven step goal setting system with the seven step problem solving system and the questions are exactly the same.
Right, so let's say you weighed 200 and your goal is to weigh 180. So you could say.
Uh, my goal is to weigh 180 pounds and you go to 7 steps. Well, you could flip it and say my problem is is I weigh 20 pounds too much.
And then you do the seven steps, right?
It's the same exact thing, but it's interesting how some people you know we're all created different.
Some people like achieving goals.
Other people like solving problems, but it's really the same path to get there.
Yeah, I'm there with you.
Well, you know in addition to what we do at the improver network, I also own an insurance agency and we run into that with our customers.
'cause you get some that their primary motivation is the fear of loss or the others.
It's more of the promise of gain, in other words, so getting instant savings now or what have you and some people are.
They're just wired differently, and so that makes a lot of sense, so that planner.
Is something that could be purchased I guess on the Zeagler website.
Then they could reach out to you guys to get it.
Or is that on other platforms as well?
It's at zygler.com.
OK Ziglar com great well as we kind of get ready to wrap up here.
Want to definitely transition into that equip people with things like those tools and you know see the books on your shelf back there and the two big ones that I can speak to for sure.
Or choose to win that we've been chatting about on this call and also see you at the top part of the reason.
I'm highlighting those is because I'm actually a choose to win and see you at the top certified coach through Ziegler and I love both of those books and both of those programs.
And we even hosted a workshop recently on choose to win, and so I'm available to do that for any listeners that want to discuss it.
In fact, our improver network members have a special access to some bonus content online related to choose to win, and so would really encourage our Members get access to that and.
That, but I want to ask you, Tom.
Other than those books, choose to win.
They see disruptive behind you.
I see you at the top born to win, which was a guy.
I guess the original on the winning book from Zig.
What other books and maybe even some non ziglar books as well.
Would you recommend to our listeners?
You bet, well, the the last book that I came out with is 10 leadership virtues for disruptive times, and it really speaks to how do we lead right now with all the change that's happened and one of the things that I hit on, and I think it's true, is that disruption.
Is only going to increase in intensity and frequency.
And so when we learn.
How to embrace disruption like as an individual?
As a leader, when I make disruption, my friend right?
Because what does disruption do?
Well, negative people say that disruption causes problems.
But as igler, I look at the opportunity and I said what is disruption cause opportunities?
More people need to be served.
And so when we get focused on solving people's problems and serving people, it's never been a better time than right now to do that.
And then when we have that mindset that it gives us an advantage, right?
Because most of the world isn't really excited about change and disruption.
In fact, they get paralyzed.
And so we.
Might have this fear set in about, you know, the great resignation or inflation, or even the R word recession.
Well, what that's doing is it's paralyzing your competition.
Which gives you more opportunity to go and serve.
So that book really is gonna it would help inspire people to think about that in a different way and and use what's seen as an obstacle will become an opportunity there.
OK, that's great.
So here's a A couple of books that are not Ziglar books that I love.
I love business secrets of the Bible by Rabbi Daniel Lapin, just a powerful book.
There's there's so many things that that we do, and when we serve others and we solve problems that have a spiritual connotation.
And so for everybody listening, if you've got a product or service that that solves a problem, you have a moral obligation to go and.
Rabbi Lapin says this that the creator of the universe.
Is never happier with his children than when they're solving the problems of his other children.
And so if you do something that solves a problem of one of God's children, then the creator smiles when you do that.
I mean, that's a pretty powerful right?
Two books by Bob Bodine.
I love the power of who and two chairs, which are great.
So who is about, you know?
How do we develop?
Friends and and an inner circle.
And how do we build on relationships that that book says we already have every.
Relationship we need to go where God wants.
Us to go.
We just haven't developed them and then two chairs.
Boy, what a season for two chairs and that's basically talking about a conversation where every morning you get up you have two chairs, one for you and one for God.
And you ask God three questions, God.
Do you know what's going on?
Well God yeah OK God second question, are you big enough to hand?
Well, yeah and the third question is OK, what's the plan?
And this is where we just be quiet.
We just listen, right?
We get the downloads.
So and when I talk about noise, some of the noise is of our own creation, right?
We we think we got to be doing and reading and checking this off the list.
Sometimes we just got to sit back and say OK God what are you telling me now?
We just got to listen.
Yeah man, that's wonderful.
Appreciate those recommendations there.
And if you aren't familiar, don't already have those books.
Want to encourage you to go grab those and start that new habit we were talking?
About earlier there.
Well, this is maybe a I question for you, but what's one question you wish I'd asked you that I didn't or something that you would have liked to have talked about and maybe.
How would you have, uh, how would you have answered that?
Yeah, you should have asked me, you know what are the three biggest challenges going on in Business Today?
Yeah yeah, can you give a quick bullet point on those three?
Do you got those top three?
On the surface.
Yes I do.
Do, uh, well the the.
There was a survey done by Job Sage 2000. People were asked the question, 28% of them had quit their job.
In the last two years, for mental health reasons.
One in four people.
And so if you're listening, think about all the people you know.
Is that ring true?
So then they asked those people, well, what was the contributing factor?
That you quit your job.
And they had multiple things they could choose. 55% of them said stress and.
Burnout is widely quit.
38% said depression.
37% said lack of motivation.
And so look at this at Ziglar.
We look at the antidote and This is why I choose to win is so powerful because it works as a business leader to your team.
It works coaching an individual.
It works as an individual trying to improve your own life.
So what's the antidote to stress and burnout?
It's quality of life.
If the seven areas of your life are doing well, you're not going to get stressed.
In burnout, you might have hard times and busy seasons, but physically, mentally, spiritually, financially.
Personally relationally, if you're doing great, the business stuff will take care of itself.
The second is they quit because of depression.
So what's the antidote purpose?
If we know what our purpose is.
Right, we've got a clearly defined purpose and we're moving towards it.
Happiness is the byproduct of the pursuit of your purpose.
And so what's the antidote to depression? It's pursuing your purpose, and the third one is lack of motivation. 37% said that, what's the antidote?
If I'm growing towards my goals towards my why towards my dream towards my purpose?
If I'm growing every day?
Then that internal motivation starts to build.
Now imagine this, you're growing every day towards a purpose, and you have balanced life.
That's what we're talking about, so I love it when a big study like that shows that what we teach and choose to win and see at the top is exactly the.
That that is wonderful.
I need to actually get with you and find a link to that.
If you could send that over to me or something, I would love to have access to that information.
'cause as we talked about before, we jumped on the podcast today.
You know part of what we're trying to do at the improve our network is help people to reach their potential.
And in part the way we do that is helping people discover their.
Purpose and become more productive.
And so which you know, we use word productive.
You're using the word growth, but you know it's all about progress towards your goals.
So man, that is just a very affirming to what we're doing here at the improver network.
So man, thank you for speaking that.
Well, for the listeners who want to continue to stay connected with you after this podcast, or maybe find out more about Zigler.
Again, I'm a Ziegler coach.
Maybe they want to know about coaching.
How would they stay connected with you?
Find out more information.
What where would you direct them?
Yeah, there's two ways. First is Ziglar. Com, That's where we have all of our information and and then if you could e-mail me directly, Tom at ziglar.com and just say hey, I urge you on the on the on the show with Justin and is he the real deal and I'll tell.
You the truth.
And that is if you can't get ahold of Justin, so that's who you really should call on this, but I'd be happy to to answer any emails that.
Come in for sure.
Well, that is wonderful, and I know we've been mentioning that used to win book.
I want to do something I didn't plan on, but I've got a copy here of choose when in fact I got a couple extra copies 'cause we did the workshop a few weeks ago and we had a few.
You left over, and so if you're listening to this podcast and you would like a copy of choose to win, I'm going to earmark a couple of you out there.
Just send us an e-mail to support at improver dot network support at improver dot network and we're going to gift you one of these books that we have here, and so we'll we'll set some of those aside, but.
For the rest of you, if you want to go to Ziglar.
COM and purchase books there and also that planner, you can get information.
About Ziglar there, but man Tom, this was fantastic.
I really love hearing some of your stories and just so encouraging and the mind is a battleground and I always appreciate it when able to get around people like you who just speak life and speak truth in an encouraging way and can tell your authenticity.
There and that you really care and so may all that means so much, and I appreciate you taking time to speak to our listeners and our network today, and hopefully we can do this again in the future.
Sounds good, I appreciate you having me on.
Alright, thanks Tom, we'll catch you later.